Freegold Forum

We gaan hier verder met Hooimijt Mei 2012 in opvolging van
Hooimijt April 2012
Hooimijt Maart 2012
Hooimijt Februari 2012
Hooimijt Januari 2012
Hooimijt December 2011
Hooimijt November 2011
Hooimijt Oktober 2011

de Warre heeft nog wat in te halen...
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=BRK-A&t ... &q=l&c=GLD

De Warre z'n vliegtuig komt niet van de grond. Veel te veel rommel in de bagageruimte.

Spruitje wrote:De Warre z'n vliegtuig komt niet van de grond. Veel te veel rommel in de bagageruimte.

ik dacht dat ie bridge speelde maar het lijkt eerder op pokeren !

PS blijkbaar liet de CME gisteren weten binnen afzienbare tijd de marges te zullen verhogen, vandaar de big fat finger dus.

Hooimijt Mei.

Zover zijn we al.
Een aantal posters meer lijkt welkom.
Zal meer dan waarschijnlijk ook komen naargelang de POG gaat stijgen.

En, wees blij,...hij zal ook stijgen

Momenteel geeft de Pog een grote vergelijkingslijn met de zon : die dien je ook in een zakske te kopen in de winkel.
( merkwaardig, momenteel weinig afschrikking te lezen over de opwarming van de aarde).

Effe het cynisme achterwege :
1) blij dat het forum staande is.
2) ondanks koersmatig gekwakkel, geen enkel goudtwijfel .
3) toch extra dank naar de forumdragers !!
4) effe deels terug naar 2 ...... man man man.....er komt
nog een PAK MISERIE OP ONS AF !!!!

laat ons allen hopen, de schade binnen de perken te houden !!

mvg
Cavajo

skyscraper wrote:die -35% zit eraan te komen:
http://moneytalk.knack.be/economie/geld ... 265290.htm

de grote vraag is of de marktprijs van goud zich onderweg zal loskoppelen zoals voorspeld door fofoa.

Zelf ben ik een grote "believer" van de theorie van Another/FOA en nu FOFOA en denk dat het niet anders zal kunnen dan ontkoppelen tussen fysiek en papier...
Als je al de artikels van FOFOA EN DE DAAROPVOLGENDE DISCUSSIES begrijpend doorneemt dan denk ik dat menig persoon de overtuiging zal vinden die ik (en ook bv Boefke denk ik) ook heb gekregen. Voorel JR weet ongeloofelijk veel voorbeelden aan te halen om bepaalde zaken beter uit te kunnen leggen

Hier bv enkele quotes:
http://fofoa.blogspot.se/2012/03/ball-o ... mentPage=2

March 29, 2012 12:14 PM
JR said...
FOFOA comment to Reference Point: Gold - Update #2

What past transgressions will we be paying for? We've OVER-paid for Saudi oil for 30 years now, with low priced Western gold. And China has been eating up our Treasury paper for a decade now, like they just can't get enough of it. Yes, there is a transgression we'll pay for, but it is not our national debt. It is the entanglement of the paper gold market in the dollar/IMF architecture.
Yes, the U.S. will ultimately mobilize its gold in defense of its failing transactional dollar, as I intimated in the post. But that will be at a much higher price of gold relative to "April 2011 constant dollars". So the gold will go a lot further than it would if we mobilized (physically sold) it today. But it will also be during a crash in the dollar relative to real necessities like food and oil. FOA wrote about this.

I have written in the past that the only hope there is to avoid a full-blown hyperinflation would be for the U.S. to proactively introduce Freegold, even inadvertently. This is not something I just thought of. But I have also pointed out how this scenario has a near-zero probability because the morons in Washington would never think to do that. But heck, it's worth a shot, isn't it?

It is difficult to visualize the coming crash because you have to understand how Freegold and currency collapse can happen simultaneously, yet be separate events. And one can actually absorb some of the other. Quicker, sooner, more open Freegold (less gold in hiding) might equate to a little milder currency collapse.

You suggest the world may say, "Thanks, but you are a day late and many trillion short. We are happy you have joined us at the All Inn, but today, for you, there is an entrance fee."

This will have a lot more to do with the failure of paper gold than paper Treasuries. Treasuries perform by running the printing press. Paper gold performs by delivering physical gold. Try to imagine international claims against the U.S. made up of a "basket" only containing gold and dollars. The dollar is collapsing in value while gold is skyrocketing, and the U.S. has to settle some of these "basket claims" during this dynamic time. Less and less physical gold will combine with more and more dollars to keep the basket even. Can you see the dynamic? Cont...

March 29, 2012 12:15 PM
JR said...
cont.

from the above comment to Reference Point Gold:

On a quick search of the archives (I'm not sure this is the best example), here's a taste from FOA:

As most of you will no doubt agree, almost all gold discussion still centers around "the dollar's war with gold". Truly, the evolution of this story will be how that war ended then and now the dollar's war with the Euro began! A very large part of that war strategy, employed by the ECB/BIS, was to let the dollar/IMF faction hang themselves by expanding and supporting the whole arena of this dollar paper gold market. Inflating the gold marketplace with so much "paper gold" that we would eventually have to bankrupt ourselves just to keep the dollar in the war game against the Euro.

Because Saudi Arabia is a member of the BIS and marks its currency to the SDR, we are going to be hard pressed, for oil reasons, not to ship [gold] against demands. Perhaps, oil's continued settlement in dollars is directly tied to gold,,,, Do ya think?

Further, much of the current credit in our modern gold market place is backed with this "legal tender" [the SDR] of the IMF. As we have contended for years, 90% of the entire modern dollar gold market is a paper game first, and that will burn as the dollar loses its position as the reserve currency. All these Giants that are holding physical gold and "credible paper" are going to win big as escalating gold values displace their dollar asset base. There are a few of you smart cookies out there that "NOW" understand what we have been getting at for such a long time.[…]

At the right time the Euro Zone will withdraw from the IMF, leaving the US and its factions as the only support for dollar credit assets held overseas. Then the evolution of SDR use our guide knows so well will be complete. This will leave the SDR interpretation open to only one avenue to finding support: its basket currency function dissolved, gold will have to flow from American based [gold stockpiles]. With most of the present official credit gold leverage built upon IMF protocols, the US will find itself shipping ever higher priced gold to defend an ever lower valuation of dollar exchange rates.

With the world credit gold markets paralyzed in default and dollar credibility placed in question along with American economic stamina; physical gold will return to official hands in Europe in exchange for Euros. A paradox observed as high gold places more demands upon Euros and sends the dollar ever lower.

Verder heb ik eens opgezocht wat LEAP2020 te zeggen heeft over goud en de komende veranderingen van het financieel systeem.

Ik heb op hun site enkele excerpts gevonden die goud (fysiek/papier) gerelateerd zijn:

http://www.leap2020.eu/Price-of-gold-th ... a3744.html


For months we have witnessing a worldwide paradoxical phenomenon which the press has widely reported. Because of the crisis investors fled most categories of assets (real estate, stock market, currencies, comodities) and many of them have invested a portion of their portfolios in gold, even causing shortages of coins or bars in many markets. Yet, and this is the paradox, the price of gold is not taking off its average price of 900 USD / ounce. As a first step, in the second half of 2008, the commonly accepted explanation was that margin calls due to massive losses in other asset classes had required significant sales of gold by their holders, offsetting growing demand and this was probably the case. But since early 2009, the paradox remains and this explanation is no longer be sufficient to explain the status of the price of the yellow metal.

LEAP/E2020, therefore, tried to understand the "why" of this paradox and draw conclusions for GEAB subscribers. Let's keep in mind that the analysis of gold market is particularly complex because it blends several phenomena that obfuscate its actual operation:
1. It is simultaneously a highly speculative market where information of all sorts is circulated to serve any particular market trend and a market for an industrial raw material (namely the jewellery trade)

2. It is a market driven by investors particularly convinced, sometimes ideologically, of the 'uniqueness' of gold as the only legitimate basis of an economy and a healthy currency

3. It is a market under the close supervision of central banks and states which, in times of crisis, regard it, on the one hand, as a potential danger to fiat money and, on the other hand, as an asset of « last resort » which can be subject to seizure when the crisis becomes uncontrollable (1)

4. Finally, it is a market that deals with a metal identified as wealth for at least five millennia, known to make people go crazy!

So, to try to understand what is happening currently in this market, caution is required. However, in the many shadowy areas of the international gold market, a darker area than others seems to provide an explanation of the current gold price and from which at the same time, useful recommendations can be drawn for GEAB subscribers. It is the difference between the two types of market for the yellow metal:

1. The physical market, which requires real transactions of yellow metal. It sells and buys real coins and bars that one must then stored oneself (in a bank safe, in one's garden or under one's mattress (2))

2. The paper-gold market. It buys and sells certificates that guarantee the possession of a quantity of gold (coins or bullion), which the seller agrees to provide the buyer physically if required.
The practical aspect of the paper gold market is obvious. It avoids the complex problems of transport and storage for buyers of large quantities of gold and facilitates all transactions, increasing liquidity in the gold world market. However, it requires absolute trust in two types of operators in the heart of this market:

. Sellers
. Regulators

The first have to be above any suspicion and respect the rules that require them, in general, to possess physical gold equivalent to 90% of the certificates that they negotiate. The latter must be even more legitimate because they must ensure that all sellers of paper gold comply with the regulations.

However, the performance of global financial institutions and regulators of the major international financial centers over the past two years does not inspire great optimism. The first acted (and still act) as top-level crooks and the latter as the accomplices of the former, especially on Wall Street and the City ... which, coincidentally, are the international centers of the gold market (3).

LEAP/E2020 believes that because of the current struggle for survival of major financial institutions and of the crisis in the international monetary system, it would be very naive to assume that the regulators of the gold market play fair, in so far as this would be, first, to the detriment of the Dollar, the British Pound and most fiat money and, second, to the detriment of the balance sheets of major financial institutions, already seriously weakened. We therefore believe that the paper gold market no longer operates by the regulations and that many operators in this market do not respect the requirement to hold 90% physical gold as collateral. It is impossible to know precisely at what collateral they hold but it is likely to be very low, at least at a level that would pose a serious problem if tomorrow more than half the buyers demanded conversion of their certificates into physical gold (4).

For the record, the United States acted, to all intents and purposes in the same manner when a manipulation when, in 1971, President Nixon suddenly announced that the dollar was no longer convertible into gold. Before 1971 the Dollar was equivalent to a certificate on gold and the United States a seller of paper gold which forgot to comlply the constraints of coverage of its certificates, and eventually had to acknowledge that it could no longer honor its contracts (5).

... (zie verder in link bovenaan)

...

nog een excerpt van LEAP:

http://www.leap2020.eu/Global-Systemic- ... a4201.html


The US Federal Reserve is no longer able, in reality, to continue its multi-decade combat against the « barbarous relic » in order to guarantee the supremacy of the US currency at the centre of the international monetary system. For LEAP/E2020 the decade which has just begun will be clearly marked by a complete KO of the Dollar (and the fall of most major international currencies) by gold.
We have often reminded readers in different GEAB issues that gold constitutes both a medium/long term investment intended to protect one’s capital against the risk of a loss in value of paper currencies and financial assets, and an eventual means of payment in the event of a very serious monetary crisis. In these two cases the choice of placing a portion of one’s assets in gold is a response to anticipating events and risks in the coming years (and not the coming weeks or months). For this GEAB N°41, a special edition at the beginning of a new decade, it seems opportune to LEAP/E2020 to put forward its anticipations on gold’s progress for 2010 – 2020, completing what the team wrote in issue N°34 of the GEAB in April 2009. This view of the decade is even more legitimate since we consider our analysis constitutes an aid for both individual investors as well as for the heads of central banks and institutions in charge of maintaining the value of a large amount of assets in the medium and long term (for example, pension, sovereign and insurance funds). Indeed for the first time in almost 40 years (since the ending of Dollar convertibility to gold in 1971), the interests of the world’s central banks and individual investors, once again, converge on gold: value is no longer at all guaranteed by the Dollar as an international reserve currency and, as long as the latter has no globally recognised successor, gold remains the only asset capable of maintaining this value.

We already took a look at the paradox of the gold market in the GEAB N°34, showing that if the market for the yellow metal seemed to be well controlled by the Fed and the large central banks to prevent any significant appreciation in the gold price, nevertheless, because of the global systemic crisis, the structural collapse of United States’ influence (and thus the Fed) and the related breaking up of the international monetary system inherited from 1971, gold was a safe investment in times of great uncertainty. As a reminder, since the publication date of the GEAB N°34 gold has gained more than 30% in US Dollars and more than 23% in Euros. In addition it has gained more than 100% in US Dollars and more than 85% in Euros since our first recommendation to diversify out of other investments in favour of physical gold (up to a third of assets) given in 2006.

Decade 2000-2009: Gold’s gain against 17 currencies (in %)
But if gold has seen its price rise considerably since then, it is not the result of any market move towards greater transparency and less manipulation by the US Federal Reserve and its major supporters. The three main tools used in an attempt to prevent any return of gold to the centre of the international monetary system are still in place, that is:

. the development of a « paper gold market » swamping the physical gold market in a sea of fictitious contracts which are essentially pledges on gold which in reality doesn’t exist (or, which amounts to the same, is repeatedly used for different contracts)

. the falsifying of the levels of actual physical gold reserves, especially those of the United States, which have not been subject to independent audit for decades

. the communication tactic, via major economic and financial media, of systematically suggesting that investment in gold is out of date, reserved for old people who only swear by gold in the same way as they would tell stories of forgotten wars, or by gold bugs whom the precious metal turns mad.

As the whole world has been able to see over the course of these last forty years, and until recently, this strategy worked extremely well, even leading a number of other countries, United Kingdom in the first place (1), to divest themselves of their gold reserves at rock bottom prices. This story thus shows very clearly the necessity for decision-makers, either to have a strong personal ability to anticipate events, or to have access to such quality anticipation. In this case, the bill for not anticipating events will reach at least ten billion USD.

But if the market, organised in such a way to permit gold to be held at a distance from the international monetary system for forty years, has continued to function, what is it that has changed and made this strong rise in the gold price possible? It is the overturning of a factor essential to world order, due to the growing impact of the systemic crisis and the entry into the phase of worldwide geopolitical dislocation: the US Federal Reserve no longer has the means to battle against the old enemy of US Dollar hegemony which gold represents. This loss of ability is, of course, a complex phenomenon, consisting of many facets which we analyse in this GEAB edition.

... lees verder in de link bovenaan