Haystack October 2011

English language haystack
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Boefke
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Re: Haystack October 2011

Post by Boefke »

@Paul, thank you very much for your input here. Something to think on I guess, but very well explained. I hope to come back on this later.

About the video I posted, I can be short. I didn't post that video....I shared it with you.
It was posted on a site of a person you probably all know (or know now).

The link is here http://forafistfulofdollars.blogspot.com/

Blondie, you're very welcome on our forum.
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Paul
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Re: Haystack October 2011

Post by Paul »

ah nice one
I love circles

8-)
"Taxes are a barbaric relic of the past"
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Boefke
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Re: Haystack October 2011

Post by Boefke »

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Boefke
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Re: Haystack October 2011

Post by Boefke »

http://www.financeasia.com/News/276911, ... minbi.aspx

This is a new trading vehicle where gold is dominated in Renminbi. Settled in Hongkong.

It's not a physical only platform as you can get a leverage up to 25%, but QUOTE ''Starting from today, members can take physical delivery of the gold upon settlement."

As it is settled in kilo bars, it is probably much, much more convenient than the GLD. And when this exchange is build the same way as the GLD, it is not a price maker, but a price follower. And than we now enough as FOFOA pointed out recently http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2011/01/who-i ... g-gld.html

Could this be another way for China to accumulate more gold, without exploding the price? In this case it's important to get clear who the delivers the gold....after settlement. Can't find it in this article.
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Rasta
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Jim Rickards

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Jim Rickards on King World News

Blog page with some snips of the interview, interview page, mp3 podcast [23:00]

I do not necessarily agree with all of Mr. Rickards, but he has some good perspectives.
- The bonds and banks are toast, but that doesn't mean the end of the Euro
- New kids to Wallstreet should read "Reminiscences of a Stock Operator". So they understand that the bucket shops are still here today, they are just operating global and deal with a lot more zero's.
- Dodd/Frank bill turned out to be financially repressive to the banks - they will be boxed to keep buying government securities
Eventually there will be an awakening, a balancing of the scales and a bill to be paid, and for that I hold gold - Jim Sinclair
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Boefke
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@Paul

Post by Boefke »

I've been reading your post over and over again. I must say, although you explained it very well, it is still hard for me to see why we need 1 Unit of account. When we have a reference point that is equal around the world (say gold in weight) why is it than not possible to have different currency's fluctuating in price around this point? You say, it is necessary for trade (correct me if I'm wrong)......but for today it isn't the way like you say it should be. The $ is the world currency now, but will be replaced by the € later....

While the € isn't attached to a nation state we wouldn't have the Triffin Dilemma any more.

But still I didn't have a good feeling about what is the problem here. Something is wrong in this perception but it's hard to get hold on. So I searched the archives for hours and found some interesting open letter from FOA to Martin Armstrong. Probably you know it. Found it on FOFOA.

And after reading this post 3 times now, I think I found a possibility where the problem is.

FOA writes here that Armstrong has a wrong perception of reality. OOOF, think of that one.
He states that there are not 2 party's involved in our monetary system (Public, Private).....but a third party also Privat Person.

The public is of course the government, the private is in his eyes banking systems.

Realising that this comes to the hart of Armstrong's theory's I can imagine this will not find fertile ground on your side in the beginning.

Quote:
history proves how poor of a job government and bank paper money has done without using gold. Your description that follows is an excellent example of the battle between the first party governments and the second party banking systems. The third party private person will be impacted from this abuse of the money system, however, our heart was never in it.

With me?
This could be quite an eye-opener. I urge you to read this post very carefully because it is a must in my opinion.

The next quote explains why FOFOA reacted the way he did when you was posting in the replies on his site.

Quote:
I submit that you have misread the historical attraction to gold that private citizens impart upon this metal. The human factor always has and always will gravitate to using things as trading items. We were born a people of earth with senses that touch, see and feel for value. Whether our trading things can be considered money, a medium of exchange, legal tender or a store of value, was never the issue. Governments and banks made them an issue so as to circumvent our value of trade for their benefit.

Is Armstrong really that independent like he says he is? I begin to doubt on so much now that I must work some things out before I can go on on this subject.......

Below the link:
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2009/08/foa-t ... -1999.html
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Paul
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@ boefke

Post by Paul »

Yes I have read the conversation between FOA and Armstrong.
first when I read the FOFOA archive, and later on again when I was really struggling.

I have not really explained why we need the one unit because Armstrong does in his article and I just referrred to it.
Without it we will fall back a century in trade(bold guess). You can not do risk assessment if you have to compare each and every price relatively to weight of gold. it is not only really inpractible, it also suggests gold is stable in value, and therefore can be ultimate proxy. it is not. it is cyclical like every other market. it is how the machine called nature works. everything is always in motion.

FOA did not understand Armstong one bit me thinks. Armstrong is talking about confidence when he is talking about public and private. It is FOA's own projection and interpretation that is misleading here. He did not get the abstraction level. Armstrong is not talking about banks being the private. It would include the person (and many other things, including gold) as well.
Armstrong is not focussed on gold, because he understands the markets. gold is just a (important) player on it, but there is much much more to this. I agree with Armstrong.
Last edited by Paul on 17 Oct 2011, 14:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Rasta
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Talking about Armstrong

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Radio Interview
Answering Your Questions
Recorded download mp3
Bloomberg response
Image

pdf and mp3 podcast [26:24]
Eventually there will be an awakening, a balancing of the scales and a bill to be paid, and for that I hold gold - Jim Sinclair
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Paul
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@ boefke

Post by Paul »

EUR is what FOFOA also claims it will be. But it is NOT independent. You could have debate about the free of nation state within europe as we can see each and every day at the moment. But that debate would be irrelevant to china, india, russia or good old USA to name a few anyhow. same problem would imerge after time. EUR conflict instead of dollar conflict. same market forces at work. EUR is used domestically within the EU. we will just switch from strong dollar to strong EUR policy. this conflict of interest will result in unstable system. again.
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Hong Kong Starts Trading Gold in Yuan to Tap ‘Triple Demand’

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Bloomberg: Hong Kong Starts Trading Gold in Yuan to Tap ‘Triple Demand’

Hong Kong’s Chinese Gold & Silver Exchange Society, a century-old bullion bourse, started trading gold quoted in yuan, boosting the city’s status as an offshore hub for the currency.

The Hong Kong Mercantile Exchange, backed by the world’s largest lender, started trading dollar-denominated gold futures on May 18, tapping demand for the metal from Asian investors. It plans to offer products in yuan this year, Albert Helmig, president of the exchange, said in a May 9 interview.

The society, started in 1910, will consider trading silver in the Chinese currency later, Cheung said, declining to identify the timeframe. The society has imposed a daily ceiling of 300 kilos for physical delivery of gold denominated in yuan to avoid depleting the currency pool in Hong Kong, he said.

“The sudden influx into gold bars may take away half of the yuan liquidity in Hong Kong,” Cheung said. “The uncertainties in the global economy are supporting gold.”
Eventually there will be an awakening, a balancing of the scales and a bill to be paid, and for that I hold gold - Jim Sinclair
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