Haystack October 2011

English language haystack
Post Reply
User avatar
Rasta
Gold Member
Posts: 1420
Joined: 07 Oct 2011, 15:16

Haystack October 2011

Post by Rasta » 10 Oct 2011, 16:40

The first haystack.

What is a haystack? Besides the traditional haystack (below from Claude Monet)
Image

it is a modern hang-out place. A comfortable place to chat, while the world around is growing levels discomfort, increasing from inconvenient to insanity. Here, we can safely wait for the world to grasp the inevitable, while discussing the contemporary events through a freegold view.

Let's kick of with the link to the freegold wiki.
Eventually there will be an awakening, a balancing of the scales and a bill to be paid, and for that I hold gold - Jim Sinclair


User avatar
Indiana Jones
Freegold Member
Posts: 4725
Joined: 05 Oct 2011, 16:00
Contact:

The Gold Trail

Post by Indiana Jones » 10 Oct 2011, 17:31

The Message of an Evolving Market

For most outsiders Freegold is hard to understand and for me it is almost impossible to explain in a few lines. Though I can tell you what it is not.
Freegold is NOT a goldstandard. No fixed goldprice but a free floating goldprice.
Freegold is NOT a goldcomponent in a IMF SDR basket.

If you follow the Goldtrail in the USAGOLD Discussion Forum Archive I-V you will know what we are talking about.
Although the postings of ‘Another’ were made in 1998 and ‘FOA’s’ Gold Trail was written in 2000-2001 the content is still valid until now.

Nobody really knows who is the poster behind ‘Another’ be some believe it is Ferdinand Lips. Mr. Lips 1931-2005 was co-founder and a managing director of Rothschild Bank AG in Zurich.
Some detailed information about Ferdinand Lips:
http://relay4thetruth.blogspot.com/2009 ... -lips.html



USAGOLD is pleased to offer these special pages of unfolding commentary (and archives) that are sure to challenge conventional perceptions of the gold market and international monetary affairs. As we turn over posting access to this web page to our anonymous author, FOA, we no more know in advance the schedule or direction of the forthcoming commentary than do our fellow readers. However, based on our past association with this gentleman, we are confident that the messages will continue to be as fascinating and as worthy of careful study as anything you will find on the web today.

Through these special pages we can now follow "The Gold Trail" of current events; anticipating the road ahead while leaving this easy-to-follow trail of commentary behind.


http://www.usagold.com/goldtrail/
Everything that needs to be said has already been said.
But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.

User avatar
Boefke
Silver Member
Posts: 236
Joined: 03 Oct 2011, 17:26
Contact:

@ Indy, re Ferdinand Lipz

Post by Boefke » 10 Oct 2011, 19:34

Thank you very much voor your interesting post about Mr Lipz. I've read his book Gold Wars, and during this book i was constantly asking and looking for hints of Mr Lipz being Another.

In the end my conclusion is that it's a chance of 50/50. Not that it really matters, what really matters is the content of his posts. But after reading this interview i must say it is hardly possible that Mr Lipz was Another. Especially when it comes to silver Another is much more clearer than Mr Lipz.

For me, this discussion is over now. Clear to me....

P.S. i think it is a very good idea of the moderator to create a place where we can discuss things in English. Good for us to improve our English language, and for other members around the world to join our discussions till some extend.

User avatar
Indiana Jones
Freegold Member
Posts: 4725
Joined: 05 Oct 2011, 16:00
Contact:

Re: @ Indy, re Ferdinand Lipz

Post by Indiana Jones » 10 Oct 2011, 22:31

Boefke wrote:Thank you very much voor your interesting post about Mr Lipz. I've read his book Gold Wars, and during this book i was constantly asking and looking for hints of Mr Lipz being Another.

In the end my conclusion is that it's a chance of 50/50. Not that it really matters, what really matters is the content of his posts. But after reading this interview i must say it is hardly possible that Mr Lipz was Another. Especially when it comes to silver Another is much more clearer than Mr Lipz.

For me, this discussion is over now. Clear to me....

P.S. i think it is a very good idea of the moderator to create a place where we can discuss things in English. Good for us to improve our English language, and for other members around the world to join our discussions till some extend.
If Freegold is accepted wordwide as Store of Value, the American Dollar will lose it's Store of Value function. I guess it will lose it's Word Trade Function anyway, but losing it's Store of Value function would be devastating for the Wall Street banks.

Why are so little people asking themselves WHY the Peoples Bank of China is accumulating Gold and not in the open goldmarket. Why are other Asian and Russian Central Banks and Saoudi's harvesting gold from goldmines. Why are European Central Banks not selling gold anymore.

And NO, gold is not going to replace fiatmoney. Fiatmoney -in digital form- will always be there, because the world needs it for trading purposes. Even the dollar is going to survive and I hope the euro too but I'm not so sure right now.

All governments are struggeling with huge debt problems. If there is no solution to resolve that sovereign debt crisis, currencies will be hyperinflating into eternity. Untill some country or union will stop the hyperinflation by introducing and accepting the freegold meganism and soon all countries with enough physical gold will follow ...... last but not least the United States will follow if there is no other way out.

That will be the end of the fractional reserve fiatcurrency system, even the end of the fractional reserve gold system. That day the comexgold price will be a fraction of the physical gold price.

Let the men behind the curtain decide and if the don't the market will decide for them.

greetz Indy
Last edited by Indiana Jones on 11 Oct 2011, 17:20, edited 2 times in total.
Everything that needs to be said has already been said.
But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.

User avatar
Rasta
Gold Member
Posts: 1420
Joined: 07 Oct 2011, 15:16

When Money Dies

Post by Rasta » 11 Oct 2011, 08:23

This book is a favorite of mine, as it describes the dangers of money (debt) without restrictions.

Image

And be sure to listen to an audio interview with the author, by Financial Sense Newshour.
FSN interview page and the direct link to the podcast.
Eventually there will be an awakening, a balancing of the scales and a bill to be paid, and for that I hold gold - Jim Sinclair

User avatar
Rasta
Gold Member
Posts: 1420
Joined: 07 Oct 2011, 15:16

F.A. Hayek Interviewed By John O'Sullivan

Post by Rasta » 11 Oct 2011, 10:00



An extremely interesting video with Nobel prize laureate F.A. Hayek. Discussing the very existence and organization of our society, how money is the lifeblood in there. There are a couple of behavioral conflicts, which force the constant battle between efficiency and anonymity. Hayek also goes into why Keynes would have disproved of Modern day Keynesianism.
Eventually there will be an awakening, a balancing of the scales and a bill to be paid, and for that I hold gold - Jim Sinclair

User avatar
Rasta
Gold Member
Posts: 1420
Joined: 07 Oct 2011, 15:16

Martin Armstrong

Post by Rasta » 15 Oct 2011, 19:51

Hat's off to Martin Armstrong. I wonder how he can push out that many lengthy pieces, in good quality too I might add.

Broke Again
Now What's Going On
Image

6 pages

Gold and Silver
Pulse of the World Economy.
Image

40 pages
Eventually there will be an awakening, a balancing of the scales and a bill to be paid, and for that I hold gold - Jim Sinclair

User avatar
Boefke
Silver Member
Posts: 236
Joined: 03 Oct 2011, 17:26
Contact:

Re: Haystack October 2011

Post by Boefke » 16 Oct 2011, 11:06

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/ ... 9120111015

It's hard for me to make something of this. Is this the proof the Arabs are still supporting the $ as a payment for their oil? That the director talks about gold in the way he does is understandable, as what would happen when he said they we're going to buy it all in the open market.......

And I do know their is a difference between on the stage, and behind the curtain. Are the Arabs trying too cool things down.....because they know that the unrest in the Arab world could spread very easily to their country?

Someone?

User avatar
Paul
Platinum Member
Posts: 837
Joined: 10 Oct 2011, 16:27

Re: @ Blondie

Post by Paul » 16 Oct 2011, 15:04

first things first,
big up from Holland for beating the aussies with rugby(smile) !
Blondie wrote:I am the last person who would call for another to abdicate their responsibility to think for themselves.

I am interested in your views; I have not seen an explanation of them which I understood, as yet, so I am keen to be pointed toward such a synopsis. Perhaps you can clarify here?
Perhaps another member who shares your perspective can help?
As promised I will try to clarify my postition, This forum is not the place to write/publish own theory, but it is perfectly suited to exchange thought.
As you state, people are responsible to think for themselves. I couldn't agree more, you can share knowledge, but you cannot share wisdom. to get there one needs to use own brain ...
Blondie wrote: If the market has freely established a rate of exchange between gold and currency, presuming said currency is still acceptable in exchange for other goods and services (ie. is an acceptable medium of exchange), then simple triangulation gives the value of any of the three. Such value remains subjective in that it is an expression of the utility found in the valued item (gold, currency or tangible good/service) by the assessor, but all participants in such a system now have an objective reference point: the weight of gold does not change.
The way I look at it, what is missing here is the international component; the import/export perspective. To be able to trade internationally in modern time volume, we NEED a international uniform unit of account. Dollar performed wonderful here, problems are caused by double functionality, dollar is also used domestically. International uniform unit of account should be independent to be stable.
My position here is exactly the one Martin Armstrong describes in his one world currency piece.

http://www.martinarmstrong.org/files/On ... cy-509.pdf

We need a modern equivalent of Bretton Woods to accomplish this, we should have Bretton Woods 2.0 by now, but instead we are dealing with Bretton Woods 0.5 at the moment. The system changed when floating exchange took over(for the good), but the rest of our systems were not adapted(really bad). This is what is causing all this mess. Not the question what money actually is.

In my view (market)money is intangible commodity. Ultimately it is a confidence game. It is cyclic in behaviour. I would draw a mental playing board to play on that would probably look something like this.

Image

I see a relation between the power and the money which feels fractal. A functional simularity in the components. To be able to create a stable system the flows between the components should all be functionally separated.
In power we separated religion and state(in the west) during Enlightenment, This crash, although I hope crash can be avoided, will teach us also to separate market and state. In money same thing; splitting of functionality will result in stable system. we store in assets, we account in a world reserve currency, and we use a local currency domestically.

This all is thought in progress. I saw a wonderfull presentation yesterday about the human brain posted by boefke here, and am now playing with thought if there is fractal simularity to be found here as well. (power would be left side brain, money right side). probably not, but it is nice thought...

Where Lietaer comes in, is in the separation of market and state. I could not see this happening, where I also see this as a nescessity.

I agree with Lietaer we are in digital revolution and (market)money is inheritance from industrial revolution. Its organisation is all about efficiency and competiteveness and performs excellent when dealing with economic forces, ultimately dealing with scarcity.
Digital age is not about scarcity, it is about networks and information and is about sharing. scarcity in those domains is artificial. mankind has not adapted yet. Digital revolution is the explosive change caused by our information systems, it would be strange if the most fundamental information system of all, our money, would stay unchanged.

From my perspective market is just a component of society where resource and demand need to be brought together. where market is a confidence game about scarcity and needs competitive money (without flaws) to achieve this, other domains of society, not dealing with scarcity, need their own different kind of money. Money is about bringing the resource and the demand together. competition is not always best suited to achieve just that. human nature is also about cooperation. about teaching. about learning from and taking care off each other.
Furreai Kippu in Japan, and Saber in Brasil are nice examples of complementary currencies doing just that.
This is also where I see the needed separation becomming possible. give the politicians their own currency, so they can stay out of the markets. stop manipulation. stop the borrowing and the promises. give them a currency accounted in hours already worked for. no promises. true value. the work is already done.
There will be arbitrage between the complementary currencies, as there is arbitrage in everything, but functionally the money is separated. When market is crashing, society is not.

It is like ecosystem, to be sustainable you need diversity. Government will have to adapt to modern times ...

Hope this clarifies a little ...
Last edited by Paul on 16 Oct 2011, 22:53, edited 1 time in total.
"Taxes are a barbaric relic of the past"

User avatar
Paul
Platinum Member
Posts: 837
Joined: 10 Oct 2011, 16:27

Re: Haystack October 2011

Post by Paul » 16 Oct 2011, 20:41

found this today
off topic but me thinks really nice ...

1 x 8 + 1 = 9
12 x 8 + 2 = 98
123 x 8 + 3 = 987
1234 x 8 + 4 = 9876
12345 x 8 + 5 = 98765
123456 x 8 + 6 = 987654
1234567 x 8 + 7 = 9876543
12345678 x 8 + 8 = 98765432
123456789 x 8 + 9 = 987654321

1 x 9 + 2 = 11
12 x 9 + 3 = 111
123 x 9 + 4 = 1111
1234 x 9 + 5 = 11111
12345 x 9 + 6 = 111111
123456 x 9 + 7 = 1111111
1234567 x 9 + 8 = 11111111
12345678 x 9 + 9 = 111111111
123456789 x 9 +10 = 1111111111

9 x 9 + 7 = 88
98 x 9 + 6 = 888
987 x 9 + 5 = 8888
9876 x 9 + 4 = 88888
98765 x 9 + 3 = 888888
987654 x 9 + 2 = 8888888
9876543 x 9 + 1 = 88888888
98765432 x 9 + 0 = 888888888

1 x 1 = 1
11 x 11 = 121
111 x 111 = 12321
1111 x 1111 = 1234321
11111 x 11111 = 123454321
111111 x 111111 = 12345654321
1111111 x 1111111 = 1234567654321
11111111 x 11111111 = 123456787654321
111111111 x 111111111 = 12345678987654321
"Taxes are a barbaric relic of the past"

Post Reply