Foul solution...

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Indiana Jones
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Re: Foul solution...

Post by Indiana Jones » 24 Oct 2011, 10:33

Martin Armstrong Oct.2.2011 The Dollar
and Its Reserve Currency Status:


"There will be no easy transition because politicians once again approach the economy as if they were some medieval doctor pulling body parts out until the pain stoops or the patient is dead."

"Politicians only listen to what they want to hear."

"Because the original idea of the Fed to divorce POLITICS and ECONOMICS to secure the stability of the economy long-term failed because politicians could not keep their hands out of the pockets of the Fed and Treasury, we have a monetary system that few really understand."

"Politicians always try to escape responsibility."
Everything that needs to be said has already been said.
But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.


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Boefke
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Re: Foul solution...

Post by Boefke » 24 Oct 2011, 10:40

bailouts4ever wrote:@ Blondie

You are perfectly right and I guess non of the forum members has any interest in the outbreak of any conflict. I do not think nor believe that Europe will burst into war when the currency or the monetary system fails...Merkel and Sarkozy spread otherwise - but that is just B.S.

So we in "...a touch of genius" can agree that war SHALL NEVER be the answer to such enormous transition. However, the nature of my post was to address exactly this issue. It may not be on us to decide which way to go that is our "all mighty governments" decision.

You said that you could not understand my belief in the power of governments: Well, I do by far not believe that everything can be handled or sorted out by governmental power. Just over the last years we have seen that this is not the case. However, they are left with enough power to steer the uninformed and often ignorant masses in their direction.

This post shall not be a discussion if or if not - it shall be a discussion about which way governments will screw up?
Allow me to react on this highlighted part. "Uninformed and often ignorant masses".

Very good one.

As it may look like the mass is still ignorant and uninformed, their is a boiling point in here like in everything else.
As I can only speak for my own country (The Netherlands), there is still a long way to go before everybody starts to wake up.....it's lala-land all over the place.

But what if the house prices keep falling, the pension funds get in a more worse state, and prices of everyday living keep rising and rising? Wages won't go up (at most positive situation) and unemployment steps in.........
Do you still think that the mass is ignorant than? History has proven that they will not...

This will take away the unconditionally faith in the governments. They should haven taken care of our privileges........but it will proof that the fire power of governments is limited. When someone get's paid by the government in a debasing currency, and experiencing flaws all around him....is this person still as motivated as before to take up the gun unconditionally? This way the Roman empire came to an end also.

Governments part in this process is limited, very limited.

What we are experiencing now is comprehensive, and a game changer for the rest of our lives.

bailouts4ever
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Re: Foul solution...

Post by bailouts4ever » 24 Oct 2011, 13:14

@ Boefke

I could not agree more. Problem remains that up until now things run in favor for our governments. Population stays largely calm, unemployment is low, taxes and funny money are still flowing. So internally there is little pressure.

It is true that reputation for governments is on the brink of being ruined while some of even the ignorant and uninformed realize that something has changed. But still, the masses are doing just fine - don't forget it's work, family, football, earthquake and celebrity talk that keeps them busy...unless the milk stops flowing the sheep will be fine.

Governments will do everything to make the system run as long as possible.
0.00 € is what your account statement will show on a long enough timeline.

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Rasta
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Re: Foul solution...

Post by Rasta » 24 Oct 2011, 17:23

I have the feeling we have come full circle here in the discussion. Wouldn't be a loss of confidence in the system, in the government/central bank of a particular monetary region, be the driver in all this? Isn't that what will discipline governments, central bank, and will put an end to the monetary madness, and bring back the stability in long term wealth?
Eventually there will be an awakening, a balancing of the scales and a bill to be paid, and for that I hold gold - Jim Sinclair

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Re: Foul solution...

Post by bailouts4ever » 24 Oct 2011, 19:17

In theory YES! That is what the book says. It would be a loss of confidence but up until now that has not happened.

In practice we see that although the system is doomed, the Rhesus monkeys are still sitting in their investors chairs listening to the helpless disinformation that Merkozy send across. So we can see that they (the masses and the governments) have not understood that their toolbox is really empty.

Once governments are getting desperate we will see the really creative actions...
0.00 € is what your account statement will show on a long enough timeline.

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Boefke
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Re: Foul solution...

Post by Boefke » 24 Oct 2011, 19:26

What we are facing today are debt-driven economy's. It's around us everywhere. Debt is the essence of fiat :lol: !

So what we just can't do is stop creating new debts. When this stops everything is destroyed.....than the mass would wake up. Wake up rude and instant.
This is what often happened in history. There was a problem, and with cutting down spendings and lifting the interest rate to double digit rates the economy was tried to make alive again.
This had a huge, huge impact on the working class. Very high unemployment, and real poverty.

IMO this way of handling the problems today is not possible. The debt is so high, it will not and can not be repaid.

What monetary authorities are doing today is the opposite. Creating money out of thin air, just to keep the machine working.

Does this change the outcome?
Certainly not!

Does it take longer for people to understand what's happening to their purchasing power?
Witnessing today!

And yes Rasta, this will start the loose of faith in currency, and people trying to get hold of any asset...other than paper money. Than we are going to face hyperinflation. Like FOFOA stated, the money IS already out there to create hyperinflation, only the faith is avoiding it to start today.... :o

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Blondie
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Re: Foul solution...

Post by Blondie » 24 Oct 2011, 20:54

As Boefke points out, the power of government is in the support (blind or otherwise) of the masses. Apathy is de facto support.
But the currency is the real conduit of this power... support is given via use of the currency... lose faith in the currency and its value is diminished (velocity increases, buying power decreases) and by extension the government's power is diminished with it.

This confidence can fail very quickly.
bailouts4ever wrote:What picture does an economic area deliver in which public institutions easily break treaties? What implications does that have on due process? How safe can your financial or even personal life be under such rule?
Such actions will not be possible under freegold as the market is in direct control of the value of the currency, and in a position to revalue that currency accordingly.
As such, governmental power will be qualitatively different than today. It really becomes the economy in power, and the economy will respond to the prompts of gold valuation. This is a symbiotic relationship between all economies, where all interact and all are part of the whole. The market really is the whole. There is no actual seat of power per se, but rather a case of natural law in action.

I see this as inevitable, as the next stage in our collective evolution, as something that can be stymied by legislation and central planning no longer as the imbalances accrued whilst attempting to avoid this natural law are about to be corrected in the same way that an avalanche corrects an imbalance in the distribution of snow on a hillside. Gravity is a natural law too. :mrgreen:
You don't own your stuff; your stuff owns you.
http://flowofvalue.blogspot.com/

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Boefke
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Re: Foul solution...

Post by Boefke » 24 Oct 2011, 21:18

Faced with this "decimation", States’ resources will be quickly overrun, especially in these times of austerity, low tax revenues and the political unpopularity of the bank bailout . Political leaders will, therefore, have to focus on protecting the interests of savers and employees (two areas full of electoral promise) instead of safeguarding the interests of bank executives and shareholders (two areas full of electoral pitfalls, whose precedent in 2008 demonstrated its economic futility). This will result in a new collapse in financial stock prices (including insurance, considered very "close" the banking situation) and increase hedge funds, pension funds and other players’ turmoil traditionally closely intertwined with the Western banking sector. No doubt this will only strengthen the general recessionary environment by limiting loans to the economy just as much .

Image

Interesting, Leap 2020 states that political leaders will focus on saving the savers and employees at full cost. This will increase turmoil in the financial sector. How are they going to do that when financial institutions are going to fail? We all have 2008 back in our mind.....do we?

Hard to imagine, I must admit. they will try....but succeed?

http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-58-is-ava ... a7904.html

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Re: Foul solution...

Post by bailouts4ever » 25 Oct 2011, 09:35

I know the recent leap report. Good regular read!

Don't get me wrong - I do agree with everything you say.

HOWEVER, it is just a theoretic case nowadays. Some countries may already show the symptoms you are stating (falling tax revenues, a rioting voter base of savers and pensioners etc.) but not all countries - particularly not the strong and decisive ones - are having such problems.

Consider Finland, Austria, Netherlands, Germany - all are (or seem to be) fine. As long as these jerk countries can be used to pay for the rest of the losers everything will continue to work until the bitter end.

We should not underestimate the power of our "leaders" to kick cans and the willingness of the "sheep" to happily accept all nonsense that is being proclaimed in propaganda like disinforming news. A little example of disinformation within the last days:

News 1 - Japanese exports grew by +2,4% in September
News 2 - Japanese Nikkei falls as fears around Japanese exports arise

News 3 - German consumer morale unexpectedly rises in November
‎News 4 - German consumption -2,9% in August

News 4 - UBS shows unexpected earnings even after 1,3 billion loss by single trader
News 5 - Extra balance sheet effects rescue UBS earnings

News 6 - EFSF will not be leveraged with banking licence
News 7 - EFSF will be leveraged by insurance

News 8 - Yes, yes, yes.
News 9 - No, No, No.

Contradictions, contradictions. Know what I mean?
0.00 € is what your account statement will show on a long enough timeline.

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Boefke
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Re: Foul solution...

Post by Boefke » 25 Oct 2011, 11:23

I certainly know what you mean.

But I heard a nice example last week on Dutch television. A economist was riding his bike to give a college on the subject of the financial meltdown worldwide. As he was cycling trough Amsterdam he witnessed the people enjoying Indian summer with beer and cheers all over the place. He thought to himself, this was probably exactly the same at the eve before the start of WW1. How am I going to explain a subject like this in this environment of constant state of unconsciousness?

To point out, when a boiling point is reached, it will go very very fast ( as Blondie stated yesterday).

The fact that you are coming to questions now, before the mass gives you an unique privilege to put your wealth in the place you think it will be safe during the storm. You're in the lead now it's time to do something with it, as a lot of people will be simply far to late.

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